Zeus complains in Book I of the Odyssey:
Ah how shameless--the way these mortals blame the gods.
From us alone, they say, come all their miseries, yes,
but they themselves, with their own reckless ways,
compound their pains beyond their proper share (1.37-40).
What is Zeus saying? Is he right? Whose fault is it anyway that Odysseus has been wandering for ten years -- that the suitors are eating him out of house and home? From what we know of the story so far (think of the story of Agamemnon, Ajax, Menelaus and Nestor as well as Odysseus), are the gods to blame for our suffering and successes-- or are we?
I think the pain is caused by both the gods and the mortals. The gods may have started it, but the humans take it to another level or the humans start it and the gods make the pain worse. One example of when the humans make their pain worse is when Helen left Menelaus for Paris, Menelaus said if he does not get his wife, Helen back he is going to start a war against them and the Trojan war went on for ten years. In this example Menelaus is making his own pain worse and bringing it to another level. There are also examples of when the gods make the pain conflicted to the humans worse. For example when Ajax was walking back from war and Poseidon killed him. Poseidon tried to push him off a cliff and Ajax was able to hold on before he fell and he yelled “In the teeth of the gods,” he bragged, “I have escaped the ocean’s sheer abys!”(140) when Poseidon heard this he smashed his trident into the ground and Ajax fell to his death. Ajax thought he was safe after he saved himself from falling off the cliff, and when he yelled out, Poseidon put him in more trouble and killed him by smashing his staff in the ground so Ajax would lose his grip and fall. Another example of when the gods make the mortals pain worse is when Odysseus was trapped in Calypsos’ island and is not able to leave. When Odysseus finally gets off the island he is sailing away and Poseidon sees him and creates a storm that nearly pulls him under and kills him. While Odysseus has already been through a lot and is finally free from it, Poseidon is angry he got off the island and tries to kill him.
ReplyDeleteIn the end I think that the pain is caused by the mortals and the gods and either the gods or the mortals make it worse.
In passages 37-40 in book 1 “Zues complains” about whose fault it is for the suffering. I think the gods started the suffering in the first place but as time has gone by the gods have stopped the suffering but now the humans have than taken it too far. There is a problem with this situation because the mortals or humans still think the gods are doing it. Zues says “the way the mortals blame the gods. From us alone, they say, come all their miseries”(37-40). Zues agrees that the gods started the suffering but the mortals continued the suffering when it should have been stopped. An example of humans causes suffering is when Aegisthus “stole Atrides’ wife, he murdered the warlord coming home from troy” (pg78). In this passage the “warlord” or Atride was killed by Aegisthus which was not for a valid reasons. The mortals are causing more suffering because of their personal problems, instead of caring about everyone. Agamemnon’s sons is going to try to get revenge when he becomes the right age. Not only do mortals cause suffering but they cause rivalries. This is not the only case when mortals have caused suffering. On Nestor’s journey home he sacrifice another human for no specific reason. With all these great example I can truly agree with Zues and how he believes the humans are now causing all the pain. These mortals are killing for only personal reasons. In the end they are causing suffering to all because of the small problems with them not the problems of everyone.
ReplyDeleteI think it is quite clearly the fault of the gods for many of the misfortunes that effect the characters of the Odyssey, and other mortals from Greek mythology, but the ability of a human to blame the gods for their problems depends on the way that they behave towards the gods themselves. As demonstrated by Athena, it is quite easy for a deity to help a mortal; she disguises herself as multiple people, such as Mentor, in an effort to aid Telemachus in his mission to find out the fate of Odysseus. When bad things happen, it is that the gods actively choose not to stop them from happening, not that the gods are incapable of resolving the problem. With this being true, it is easy for mortals to blame the gods for everything that goes on in their lives. However, this frame of mind is only logical in certain situations. It can be said that there is a cycle between humans and gods: humans depend on the gods to keep them in existence and (to some extent) keep them safe. In return, the gods depend on the respect and sacrifices of humans. If this is taken as true, there is no definitive answer of whose fault our suffering is. Zeus states that humans should not blame the gods for any of their misfortunes (under any circumstances, it seems), but why should the gods let bad things happen to a devoted human? If a human regularly worships and makes sacrifices to a deity, shouldn’t that god protect that human in return? There seems to be an unspoken contract with the gods that devotion warrants protection. It seems logical that it is a god’s fault for any bad things that happen to a human, if and only if that human has been consistently respectful and loyal to the god, proving Zeus to be only partially correct. On the other side, a human should not be able to blame the gods for misfortune if they consistently disrespect the gods, as there is no longer any obligation for the gods to aid them. As this again violates the “contract” between mortals and gods, the human should have known to expect misfortune after disrespecting the (temperamental) gods. Adhering to this principle, Odysseus’ delay in returning home is his fault. By directly disrespecting Poseidon, he cannot expect to escape scot free. In summary, our successes and failures are due to our and the gods’ actions. Our cycle of worshiping the gods, and them helping us in return will keep both humans and the gods satisfied, breaking the cycle is what leads to misfortune.
ReplyDeleteI think that both the gods and mortals are responsible for suffering and happiness. This is what Zeus means when he says “From us alone, they say, come all their miseries, yes,/but they themselves, with their own reckless ways,/compound their pains beyond their proper share” (1.37-40). Zeus confirms that the gods are the source of misery, but argues that the mortals take this misery and multiply it through their own carelessness. This idea can be applied to success and happiness as well; the gods are the source of happiness and success, but it is the mortals who choose to pursue this happiness. For example, when Menelaus wants to go home from Pharos, the goddess Eidothea tells him how to capture the Old Man of the Sea and get him to tell Menelaus the way home. In this situation, the goddess gives Menelaus the opportunity to be happily at home, but Menelaus is the one who acts upon the advice. Both the goddess and the mortal are working together to achieve happiness. On the other side, Ajax’s suffering and subsequent death was caused by both the gods and himself. He provoked Poseidon into attacking him by boasting that “’In the teeth of the gods…I have escaped/the ocean’s sheer abyss!’” (4.565-6). The god is the one who gives him suffering and death, but it is also partially Ajax’s fault for taunting the god. Both the god and the mortal are responsible for his death. These two examples affirm Zeus’s statement from the first book.
ReplyDeleteDuring Book 1 of the Odyssey, Zeus complains stating, “From us alone, they say, come all their miseries, yes, but they themselves, with their own reckless ways, compound their pains beyond their proper share” (1.37-40). Zeus explains that the mortals are to blame for all of the pain and suffering the mortals have endured, not the gods. Although I believe that this is partially true, I believe that the mortals also have part in their own fate. Some of the mortals have taken the gods mistakes too far, even war. Ten years after the Trojan War, all of the Greek heroes have returned home, except Odysseus. One of the great Greek heroes that returned home safely was Nestor. King Nestor returned home without the Gods bringing bad fortune upon him, unlike the rest of the Greek heroes. However, on Nestor’s journey back from the war, he did something that the others didn’t. He sacrificed to the Gods. This act affected his journey back to Pylos and his future. He didn’t have any problems. This case, in contrast to the others where the Gods affected a Greek hero’s life once he returned home, shows that a mortals actions can affect their suffering or successes. The mortals that arrived home without sacrificing ended up with bad futures and fortunes such as Ajax. Ajax didn’t sacrifice to the gods and was caught up when he began to boast in front of Poseidon. Poseidon attacked him causing suffering upon Ajax, although he brought part of it upon himself. In the Odyssey, it states, “Take great King Nestor now: Zeus has blessed him, all his livelong days, growing rich and sleek in his old age at home, his sons expert with spears and full of sense.” (4.232-9). Specifically, Nestor acted with the right precautions by sacrificing to the gods and was awarded with great treasures and no loss when he returned from home. From this, I can conclude that if mortals act in the right way and sacrifice to their gods, they should endure happiness without suffering in life.
ReplyDeleteI believe that both, the humans and the gods should be the ones to blame for our suffering and how we flourish. As Zeus explains in the passage from lines 37-40 in Book 1, we as humans need to begin to recognize our actions and begin to blame ourselves for our suffering and sorrow. Zeus complains about Odysseus wandering for 10 years for “with [his] own reckless way” that he has chosen to follow. Zeus believes that humans are creating their own problems and accusing him of what they have done. As Telemachus explains in lines 400-405, “Bards are not to blame, Zeus is to blame. He deals to each and every laborer on this earth whatever doom he pleases. Why fault the bard if he sings the Argives’ harsh fate? It’s always the latest song, the one that echoes last in the listeners’ ears, that people praise the most.” Telemachus is describing the “bards” as humans and is saying that the “bards” are not to be the ones to blame, but rather the gods are the ones who should be in fault. Zeus, being a god, does not understand why he is the one being blamed and accused for all the misery humans are getting from their own actions. Although Zeus believes that humans are to blame for their own suffering and successes and humans believe that it is the fault of the gods, I believe that although gods affect the future of human, humans also take the gods decisions for the mortals and affect their future in their own way.
ReplyDeleteIn this excerpt from the Odyssey, Zeus is saying that the humans blame the gods for all the misfortune in their everyday lives. For example, if one’s crops do not grow because they weren’t watered, then it is the Gods fault, although they could have watered the plants themselves so that the crops did not die. The people are blind to the fact that they are the cause of their own problems and simply resort to concluding that it is the Gods faults even if they themselves could have done something to influence the outcome in a positive way. This is shown in the line "from us alone, they say, come all their miseries" where Zeus is stating that the mortals accuse the Gods for every unfortunate event that happens to them, without considering that “their own reckless ways” exclusively impact the result. I believe that Zeus is correct. For example when Agamemnon returns home from war, expecting to be greeted by his loving wife who he has been parted from for so long, he is instead met by Aegithus and his wife who kill him in order to stay in love without conflict. The death of Agamemnon is later avenged by his son Orestes. All the mortals involved in this situation are acting upon themselves without an “order” from the Gods. Therefore Zeus is correct when he expresses how humans blame the gods but when in reality the miseries and bad decisions are a result of their own choices.
ReplyDeleteIn this part of The Odyssey, Zeus is saying that the gods are the source of misery, but that people make it worse, because we are reckless. I agree with Zeus because people can be very ignorant and people can make bad choices. That’s just human nature. The gods have no influence over their decisions. For example, when Athena, Aphrodite, and Hera go to Paris, Paris makes his own decision, which causes him to really suffering. None of the goddesses made him want to choose Aphrodite’s bribe, he made the choice to take the prettiest girl in the world. He made that decision, without knowing who the prettiest girl was Helen, and if she was taken. This is not the only example in the book, The Odyssey. Another example is when Aegisthus killed Agamemnon, he chose to do that, which in turn, got him killed. The gods didn’t tell Aegisthus to kill Agamemnon, he chose to bring that suffering upon himself. He decided to kill Agamemnon because he loved his wife, the gods didn’t make him fall in love. He fell in love by himself, which the first decision that he made that caused him suffering. But the gods didn’t make either of the people do either of these things. They had no control over their choice. Zeus says that the gods initially cause pain and then the mortals make the pain worse. I agree with this statement. These are not the only examples, there are examples everywhere in the book.
ReplyDeleteZeus is saying that they have all control, but your actions have consequences and everything’s not going to be all hunky dory after you did something you wasn’t supposed to. He feels as if the people bring their issues upon themselves and they create their own misery. I feel like Zeus is partially right. Whose fault is it anyway that Odysseus has been wandering for ten years -- that the suitors are eating him out of house and home? It’s Helen’s fault. Flat out. According to Helen herself, “just for my sake, shameless whore I was.” (4.162)Stop being a whore and none of this would happen. She realizes how much power she has and she took it for granted. If she hadn’t been so hormonal, they wouldn’t have to go to war. If he didn’t go to war, Odysseus would have been able to take care of his family, be a great father and husband, build up Telemachus, and urge him in the right direction. Sadly, that doesn’t happen and now we have a whole book all about Helen’s actions. Even though I do agree with Zeus, I don’t. I do feel that I would be the one person who challenges the Gods’ power because Athena, goddess of Wisdom, could be a little more generous and spread her wisdom to the people. Zeus, all powerful, could easily steer these people. That or people just don’t fear the consequences of the Gods. A man’s wife is his wife whether he been present for 20 years or missing for 20 years.
ReplyDeleteI think that it is both the gods fault and the mortals fault. Mortals blame the gods for their suffering but with the mortal’s recklessness, the little suffering that the gods do indeed provoke increase because the mortals are taking it to a next level and they compound their pains beyond their proper share. This can be seen in the Judgement of Paris when the 3 goddesses, Athena, Aphrodite and Hera where fighting over the golden apple and in order to solve the conflict; they asked Paris, who was the fairest of the goddesses. Paris said it was Aphrodite because she bribed him. When he accepted the offer which was he could have the most beautiful women on earth, that’s when he started the conflict of the Trojan War by taking something that is not his.
ReplyDeleteIt was Paris’s desperation and recklessness that really started the whole mess by accepting the gods offer; he didn’t think before he acted, he didn’t think of the consequences. This example shows that it is both the mortals and the gods fault, not just one. Throughout the odyssey, there are many other stories that show this.
In many ways, both sides of the argument are valid. But in my opinion, I think the evidence does not favor Zeus's claim. Zeus believes that the humans cause most of their problems themselves, and the gods have nearly nothing to do with it. However, there are multiple cases of humans suffering, both in and outside of the odyssey, because of the gods holding a grudge, or not willing to understand a misunderstanding. A great example of this is why Odysseus has not found his way back home. He has been wandering, lost for 10 years, and he can’t find his way back home because Poseidon won’t allow it. Poseidon is angry because Odysseus blinded his son, Polyphemus, a giant Cyclops trapped on the island. When Polyphemus was blinded, Odysseus’s men were being eaten by Polyphemus. This means Odysseus was only defending himself and his men, and he did not know that the cave was Polyphemus’s home, making it an unprovoked attack. I believe that this makes the blinding justified. After he blinded the Cyclops, there was still punishment for doing so without Poseidon’s intervention. I believe this makes Poseidon’s intervention pointless, showing that not all human problems come from humans. Poseidon’s intervention was not only pointless, but it was dragged out through ten years. He stole ten years of Odysseus’s by not allowing him to travel the wine-dark sea and return home to rule his kingdom. This period of time might not seem like a long time to a god, but it is a very long time for a mortal. Because Odysseus was gone for such a long time, other problems arose; such as the suitor problem. The gods take their anger out on one mortal and, in turn, it affects eventually more than one mortal, causing more problems, which all start with the gods.
ReplyDeleteZeus's claim stating that the gods do indeed have some things to do with the pain and miseries the mortals endure, however the gods do not cause nearly as much as the humans say they do is exactly correct. In the first few books of the Odyssey, it becomes evident that most of the miseries that occur are caused by the mortals. Although some problems might be swayed because of the Gods, humans primarily bring it on from themselves. This is evident when Zeus is trying to defend his claim. He shares some events that have all happened because of mortals and mortals alone. Zeus states, “above and beyond his share he stole Atrides’ wife, he murdered the warlord coming home from Troy though he knew it meant his own total ruin,” (1.42-44). Zeus is vocalizing everything Aegisthus has done, which is all caused by his own self, and has nothing to do with the gods. This one example makes it clear that many of the events the mortals blame on the gods are truly caused by themselves, and other mortals.
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